Conversation of The New York Times
correspondents Heather Timmons & Pamposh Raina with Sreedharan in
question-answer form is reproduced below. It is an interesting read.
A Conversation With: E. Sreedharan
E. Sreedharan, on the platform of the Indraprastha station of the Delhi Metro.
At a
time when corruption seems to stalk nearly every corner of the Indian
government, the Delhi Metro’s star shines brighter than ever. Under
Elattuvalapil Sreedharan, the 9-year-old Metro provides stellar service,
completes projects on time and under budget, and is making a profit,
despite having the lowest fares of any metro system in the world outside
of Kolkata.
The
Delhi Metro’s more than 200 clean, comfortable trains now carry 2
million passengers a day, and it has embarked on a third phase of
expansion, a new line that will ring Delhi, connecting suburbs like Gurgaon with Dwarka.
Mr.
Sreedharan, 79, a life-long bureaucrat with more than three decades in
the country’s railways, has been the architect of this Metro’s success,
building a 7,000-person organization that, to all appearances, is
corruption-free, from the ground up.
Ahead of his retirement at the end of this year, he spoke to India Ink about how Indian society and government need to change, and the ways his spirituality makes him a better manager.
Q. The
Delhi Metro has continued to be a success at a time when many other
agencies are mired in corruption. What did you do to keep this agency on
the straight and narrow?
A. That’s a big question that cannot be answered in one or two sentences.
When we
wanted to build the Delhi Metro, we said we would do it in a different
way, creating a new organization and a new company with a lot of freedom
for taking decisions.
The board
of directors is supreme in taking decisions, we depend on the government
only for only two or three items like funding and land acquisition, and
the rest is entirely left to us.
We have
built up a team here drawn from the Indian Railways which is highly
motivated and professionally competitive, a very competent team. The
whole credit should go to the team backing me.
Q. How did you pick the team?
A. I was with Indian Railways for
36 years so I knew a lot of people. So I could hand pick, choose the
right person for the right job and then get him trained.
The main
thing was the reputation for integrity, then the reputation for hard
work, professional competence and the knowledge and the aptitude to work
in a team. If they work as a lone worker, that is not going to help us.
Q. Could
you apply these same principles to an existing organization? If someone
said to you, “Go fix Air India,” would that be possible?
A. It is possible. What is required
is the right work culture of the organization, the values of the
organization, the way the team is built up and the way they are
motivated. You need to define the roles and the goals, very precisely.
Q. What’s the best way to motivate people? Is it praise, or salary or something else?
A. The best way to motivate people
is to set an example for them. I can’t sit in an air-conditioned room
and make others do all the work. Here I try to set an example in all
manners, everything, whether it is punctuality or inspections or the
standards for specifications, finishing of the work, anything.
Q. Does this organization pay more than other government jobs?
A. We pay exactly the same, these
are government salaries. What is a motivation is the good work
environment that they have, and a good environment for learning things.
Once people work in Delhi Metro for five or six years, their market
value is so high, they are in demand by everyone afterwards.
Q. Yet, many say a reason for corruption in government agencies is that salaries are too low?
A. It
is not true. No one can say that government salaries are low, so they
have to be corrupt. It is totally wrong. Today the government salaries
are very decent. It may not compare well with the private sector, but it
is very, very comfortable.
Corruption has become a part of public life in this country mainly because of a lot of black money going around.
There are
many laws, regulations, agencies and institutions already set up to
prevent corruption, but they are not effective. We have an
anti-corruption bureau, a vigilance organization, a big strong audit
organization, we have got a huge police force, but the police themselves
are corrupt, so what is the use?
Q. How do you fix that?
A. Some basic transformation is
required. I would start with the police themselves. We have been talking
about police reform in this country for the last so many years. The
Supreme Court has given a directive to the governments in 2001 to
implement these reforms, but not even one state government or central
government has implemented these reforms.
Why? Because it does not suit the politicians, it does not suit the police, themselves.
Corruption has somehow spread into the national fabric, and it takes time to get rid of it.
People want
to make easy money, particularly the politicians, and they are the
people who are breeding corruption in this country.
Q. What is one rule or regulation that should change to curb black money, and hence corruption?
A. A simple thing — most of the
black money is coming today through property dealings. The government
knows very well that a particular property has a certain market value,
but it is registered at one-third the market value, so two-thirds goes
as black money. Why can’t the government insist that the registration be
at the market value?
And when
people are caught for corruption, why are they not punished immediately?
It takes years and years. It takes years to get justice.
But this
has nothing to do with the Delhi Metro. We have had tried to have a very
clean organization. When we suspect anybody is indulging in unethical
matters, immediately he is sacked.
Q. Can
you tell us about bringing spirituality into this organization – you
give copies of the “Bhagavad Gita” (a Hindu scripture) to all managers.
How does that help you and them?
A. You see, spirituality has no
religious overtones. The essence of spirituality is to make a person
pure in his mind and his thoughts.
When I
started reading our old scriptures, like the “Baghavad Gita,” I found it
was useful for day-to-day life, so I started practicing it.
I consider it an administrative gospel, one that will help you in doing things like running an organization like this.
Q. Do you have a favorite quote you share with employees?
A. Mainly I tell them “Do your work
without expecting any return out of it.” It is called Asangathu Vaa*.
You do it for the sake of the society, of the organization you work for.
Q. You’ll be serving as an adviser on the Indian Railways safety committee. What else is in your future after you retire?
A. No particular plan, except to retire really and spend more time on spirituality.
Q. Would you sit on the Lokpal board if asked?
A. No, no I would not like to take up any of these responsibilities. I am in the fag end of my life.
